This is a quick update on our investigation of EDIB (brake) faults in Nissan Leafs manufactured between November 2012 and February 2016 (the “Affected Nissan Leafs”, previously documented via our original post from November and a subsequent update in December). To find out the month your Leaf was manufactured, you can look your car’s registration number up on www.carjam.co.nz – on the first line “year”, the year and month of manufacture is often listed in brackets, like “(2016-03)”. If you can’t find your car on CarJam, you can also try Japan-Partner.
We’ve drafted our third update that goes into much more detail, and presents the new findings from our investigation, but final analysis and checking by our peer review panel need to be completed before it is published in a few weeks. We wanted to reach out to you sooner.
Nissan recently confirmed that they have known about the issue of EDIB faults in Nissan Leafs related to use of OBD2 devices for a long time (Nissan material we’ve been given is dated June 2015), and Nissan has posted advice on their Japanese Recall/Service Campaign Information web site in December 2015 (Google translation here or here) that installing/using OBD2 “communication devices” will trigger brake faults, amongst other system issues. Therefore, you may wish to consider Nissan advice “not to use aftermarket OBD2 devices as they cause issues with brakes and other systems”.
According to this information, the new explanation for EDIB faults now provided by Nissan is that the EDIB faults are triggered at the time of the Leaf being in READY OFF state (i.e., turned off) if an OBD2 device is left inserted. Note that we were provided with this information after Nissan New Zealand was presented this summer with a Leaf in EDIB fault mode with an OBD2 device inserted – therefore unrelated to the sub-freezing explanation Nissan provided previously.
Please let us be clear – the Nissan Leaf EDIB faults we are investigating appear to be a design fault in the brake system’s firmware installed by Nissan at time of manufacture. Using OBD2 devices does not in itself appear to be the root cause of the faults – we have been sent several videos of EDIB faults occurring in Leafs without any OBD2 device being connected for the vehicle’s recent history. But after receiving details of further EDIB faults where OBD2 devices were connected, we now have sufficient statistical grounds to believe that having a permanently-connected OBD2 device in affected Nissan Leafs significantly increases the chances of an EDIB fault occurring. Examples of these are the “Bluetooth/WiFi dongles” used with LeafSpy Pro for continuous DropBox logging, EV Black Box, FleetCarma devices, OVMS, or perhaps, other telematics devices such as used for fleet management purposes, insurance companies, car alarms or remote car control systems which are permanently connected to the Leaf’s OBD2 port. It may be possible to modify the behaviour of OBD2 devices to reduce risks, but no scientific evidence is available to confirm a reduction in risk. As far as steps taken, we have already spoken with the teams behind LeafSpy, FleetCarma and OVMS, all of whom are looking into our findings already. Additionally, the EV Black Box has been reconfigured to send requests only when the Leaf is turned on.
While our finding above relates to permanently-connected devices, we have no verified or statistically-significant information to indicate that periodic use of OBD2 devices (e.g. connecting a dongle for a few minutes to scan your car once a month or so) increases the chances of brake faults. We also have no information to suggest that use of OBD2 devices in “non-affected Nissan Leafs” increases the risks of any faults.
And lastly, if you drive an affected Nissan Leaf, we recommend that you check your 12V battery at a professional battery shop – and replace it if advised. Additionally, please pay attention to any warning lights on your dash and avoid driving your car if any warning lights are lit up. Make a habit of this check!
We have advised the New Zealand Transport Agency of the results of our analysis and stand ready to work with them and any other affected parties to reduce future risk.
We’ll next be in touch when our third update is published, and for now, we look forward to your comments and questions.
The team at Flip The Fleet.
Thanks for the update! Excuse me if this has already been covered; is there a way to get the brake firmware updated, presumably through Nissan or their supplier?
Hi Gareth. A great question! We are aware that http://www.evsenhanced.com may offer a commercial service to upgrade the brake firmware. As for Nissan, we have no written confirmation from them as to whether they will or will not provide this update in New Zealand – but here’s a comment from our original post from November last year (keep in mind, Nissan New Zealand has now verified the presence of these EDIB faults in New Zealand first hand, so we hope their approach will change): We can’t speak for Nissan, and specifically related to New Zealand, it is our understanding that as the affected vehicles were never sold new in New Zealand, that Nissan New Zealand is not responsible for the maintenance of imported vehicles they did not sell. Additionally, we assume that Nissan’s statement to us of “Accordingly none of the Nissan LEAF units imported into NZ will be impacted by the [service recall situations discussed] above.” implies that Nissan New Zealand does not acknowledge the existence of the problem related to failures in New Zealand, meaning they are unlikely to provide remedy for a problem they believe does not exist.
Thank you so much for this update. I am completely hopeless at tech stuff so have not used any OBD2 devices. I do have my inbuilt Bluetooth on a lot – should I stop using it?
Hi Rosemary,
Inbuilt Bluetooth and OBD2 devices are not connected in any way.
The article says about brake issue that can happen with or without connected OBD2 devices if you car is among affected Nissan Leafs.
Presume this concern relates to a Leaf originally purchased in the UK?
The warnings from Nissan about adapter use were sourced from the Japanese market. Both Japanese and UK models for the specific period are potentially affected.
Maybe they are annoyed we are learning to much of how things work. However I have now removed my OBD and will only plug it in when i charge to check the state of health and report to flip the fleet.
Thanks for the work you are doing on our behalf.
Bill
Hi Bill,
Charging is considered as ‘OFF’ state, so (according to Nissan) no communication should be made during this time.
Hi, we appreciate all the work you are doing, but you overestimate us. It would be really helpful if you told us (step by step maybe) how we can check whether we have an OBD2 device. I’m a beginner at this. Thanks
Hi Klemlyn,
OBD2 device is a device that is plugged in into car’s OBD2 port to get additional data from the car.
As you don’t know what it is – then I am pretty sure you do not have it.
However, the device can only increase the chance of the failure. The brake failure can happen even without any devices if your car is among affected Leafs (see the first paragraph).
If aftermarket OBD2 devices are potentially a problem, it is possible to purchase an “official” OBD2 device from Nissan?
Hi Mike. A great question! We have not heard of one that you can purchase from Nissan, so our assumed answer is “no”. Interesting, huh? 🙂
The Nissan Consult-III Plus is the current Nissan-authorised diagnostic interface for their cars, see https://www.m2kinc.com/pdf/444-brochure.pdf and https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/QUALITY/STORY/CONSULT/. It’ll be spendy I’m sure. I’d guess any Nissan-authorised dealer or repair shop would be required to use it. And I’d guess there are few if any of these in NZ at repair shops that aren’t authorised for Nissan & Infiniti. According to https://www.autoinc.org/factory-scan-tooling-take-your-shop-beyond-the-manufacturers-dealers/, “Nissan/Infiniti CONSULT3+ uses a Canon-built interface and Toughbook laptop.”
Hi Clark – indeed, Nissan appear to use Consult-III, but like you say, it’s likely to be in the thousands to purchase (if it can be purchased from Nissan at all – m2k may not be an “authorised reseller”). I think it’s safe to say it’ll be out of financial and technical reach for most drivers – I think Mike’s question is “is there an official dongle”, but perhaps I’m wrong.
Hi Mike,
OBD2 devices are not a cause of the problem, but they can increase the chance of the failure. The issue can happen even without any devices connected.
As the article says – “It may be possible to modify the behaviour of OBD2 devices to reduce risks”.
I have never heard about any official OBD2 devices from Nissan though.
Can you please explain your recommendation to check the 12V battery. Do you think this problem, or others, may be related to 12V battery health in some way?
Hi Paul. A high percentage of EDIB faults we’re aware of reported having a weak/replaced battery before/after their faults – we’ll do a new tally on our next update, but, without evidence that a weak 12V does NOT contribute to the chances of an EDIB fault happening, it’s an easy recommendation for us to make to have your battery tested as a precautionary step. Personally, I had mine tested last week, took a few minutes and it the check didn’t cost anything – so it’s not an onerous task.
There have been cases with EDIB faults where OBD2 devices have never been used but there have been issues with the 12V battery. We don’t have formal scientific evidence to link 12 V battery issues with EDIB faults but it is possible it is a contributing factor in some cases.
I haven’t used my OBD2 device at all in my Nissan Leaf S model and have not had any brake issues so far.
I don’t really know how to use or where to plug it in on my model, so I think I will leave it along.
Hi Alan,
OBD2 device can only increase the chance of the issue, but the brake failure still can happen without any devices connected if your Leaf was manufactured within specific dates and has ‘A’ or ‘B’ firmware.
Hi. Thanks for the advice and for acting on our behalf. Much appreciated. Can you something though. Is it okay for an OBD2 device to be permanently plugged in but switched off and only turned on when capturing data for FTF when the car is on?
Hi Martin – this is a great question, but not one we can provide an answer to. Nissan uses words like “install”, so even if it’s not turned on as such, leaving one plugged in could still cause problems according to Nissan.
They would say that, no manufacturer likes someone plugging into their cars. I’m not sure what problem they are referring to but my brakes have always been horrible. The handover from regenerative to wheel braking is just terrible and according to AllDataDIY is a long known fault that can only be reset by Nissan. But I find LeafSpy and my aftermarket OBD2 device can clear the fault and massively reduce the problem, for a while. On the 12 volt battery, that’s another very weak part of the car, it eats them, Im on my third in three years. Still love it though, best car I have ever owned
Hi Dima,
Just a note…
I bought my OBD2 dongle device 4 years ago for our 1st Leaf.
It had its own power button so it could be turned off whilst fitted.
Not many of the OBD2 dongle devices on the market have this feature.
I initially left the device permanently fitted for a while until I realised the power button had failed in the ‘on’ position creating a parasitic load via the onboard LED and Bluetooth transmitter operating 24/7. I now only fit it monthly for Flip the Fleet.
I charge the 12v battery monthly on both of our Leafs using an external 12v charger. They both take between 20-60 mins of charging at 2200mAh to reach 14.5v. I had noticed that the car fitted with the OBD2 usually took a little longer to charge.
From what I’ve seen on Leafspy the onboard 12v charger starts at 14.5v but usually settles to around 13.2v after about 30 secs …. not exactly what they were designed to do with an ICE Alternator running.
Both our cars arrived with the the 12v batteries in a lower state of charge. If others owners out there have received their cars in a similar condition and the battery is not occasionally exercised and topped up …. do you think this could eventually lead to premature 12v battery sulfation and resulting 12v system issues? – brakes being one symptom…
I suppose that an unintended consequence of this might be that dealers no longer provide, or allow customers to do, a LeafSpy report. Perhaps there’s an opportunity for a Nissan agent to give a report on every car that enters the country?
Hi All, I might be able to answer some of these questions as I work within the industry sell OBD2 Equipment (aka Scantools).
The Nissan Consult III is not commercially available in New Zealand (and most of the rest of the world), and if you could buy is it would be over $10k and require on going subscription costs.
No OEM Manufacture makes/sells an Authorised OBD2 Dongle, as they want everything to come back to the dealer.
Even if your OBD2 Dongle has an Off Switch there is the potential that it could still cause the above mentioned issue as the some of the pin the dongle connects to are joined internally with the dongle to complete a electrical circuit. I assume that all the Off button would do would be to turn off the power going to the dongle from Pin 16 (Bottom Right with the smaller side at the bottom) as this is the 12v power supply pin on the ODB2 socket.
As a newbie to the EV scene, and coming from a lifetime in aviation, I find it hard wrap my head around the idea of plugging random devices into the on-board systems!
While a car is unlikely to cause the level of damage you can achieve with an aircraft, it could still be embarrassing to find yourself with a vehicle on your hands that is ignoring your control inputs!
Update:
Local Nissan dealer wants $4600 to replace the brake control unit and abs unit. It is NOT covered under warranty. The car is a 2015 with 25,000 miles. I called 1877nogasev and they are getting the info from this dealer and will get back to me on monday the latest.
I imported a 2014 Leaf S from Japan August 2018 ($14k) and had a reduction in brake power when stopping at low speeds sometimes. If I did a double-tap stop when pulling up at an intersection, I would aim to stop at a specific point but then let off the pedal slightly, just prior to stopping, then there was sometimes a sudden loss in braking power by about 50% and then quickly needed to press the brake pedal much harder to stop from hitting the car in front. Very scary and could almost do it on demand. This is the only time the issue presented. I then got CarFox (Palm Nth but maybe he was from GVI Taupo?) to update the dash to English, and do a brake related firmware update (for an extra $150 ish) and the problem seems to have mostly gone away. I have an OBDC ALWAYS plugged in and on and check/record stats almost daily so perhaps that helped set the issue off more often prior to the firmware update, if that is the brake issue in question here. Now dream to get a 30kwh Leaf as next car 🙂
Hi Greg. Like you, I always have my OBD plugged in to my 2015 Leaf and checking the stats but am now worried about the poitential negative effects after reading this article. Are you able to reply to this message with the updated brake firmware number (from the DTC menu on the Service Screen (That’s if you have LeafSpy Pro)) so I can check the firmware number on mine? Much appeciated.
Hi Dima, thank you for the great, informative piece. Was the third update ever released? Am struggling to find it!
Hi Chris – no, not quite yet – but I’m hoping to get to it sometime in the near future!
Hi,
Does the recommendation of not leaving a OBD2 dongle in all the time also apply to the Leaf 40 kWh?
Thanks
As far as we are aware, the Nissan warning appears to be generic and apply to all of their cars. However, Nissan might be able to provide further clarification.
Great info. I just suffered this brake failure on 29/12/2021 in the US.
Was the third report revision ever released?
This CAN bus frailty really begs a couple of questions: 1) How insecure are these systems from malicious attack? (these failures could be “induced” remotely…, e.g., as a remote “kill switch”); 2) How can vehicle ownership outside of a warranty period be a viable economic option without alternatives to manufacturer\dealer service? This independent service option is “locked out” without access to viable tools.
Does Flip The Fleet happen to have the brake firmware number (which can be checked using LeafSpy Pro on the Service Screen) of the affected Leafs with the EDIB fault? I have had my obd plugged in for a few weeks (since I’ve had the car) and am now a bit worried about the potential negative effect it could be having on the brakes etc So far, no trouble but I wouldn’t like to take the risk. Thanks.